Adam and I have had a long standing disagreement over the last two Jurassic Park movies. I'm not exactly sure where it stems from, or when it was first brought up. All I know is I can't stand Jurassic Park 3, and he detests Jurassic Park 2. So what better place to start the inaugural entry in our (hopefully) long-running yet-to-be-named point/counterpoint series? A quick warning, some spoilers follow.
Adam: Ok, before we begin I'd like to clear the air. I do not think JP3 is a good movie. It is a mindless, clichéd monster movie with few redeeming qualities. And yet it is still better for a few reasons. First of all Alan Grant is the superior leading man to Ian Malcolm. I suppose that’s a good a place to start as any. Grant is a more intelligent, better acted, and better written character (not to mention more believable) than Malcolm's over the top mathematician.
Adam: Ok, before we begin I'd like to clear the air. I do not think JP3 is a good movie. It is a mindless, clichéd monster movie with few redeeming qualities. And yet it is still better for a few reasons. First of all Alan Grant is the superior leading man to Ian Malcolm. I suppose that’s a good a place to start as any. Grant is a more intelligent, better acted, and better written character (not to mention more believable) than Malcolm's over the top mathematician.
Ben: I agree that Grant is the better leading man; however I do not that think that makes JP3 a better movie. Malcolm does a fine job leading JP2, and he has a great supporting cast helping him out, including Julianne Moore, Vince Vaughn, and Richard Schiff. JP3 has William H. Macy and Tea Leoni in poorly written roles and with nowhere to go with them, and a few other no-name actors that are easily forgotten.
Adam: Ok, we come to our first point of disagreement. The supporting cast in JP2 stunk. Malcolm is admittedly fine, but Julianne Moore and Vince Vaughn's characters are moronic. They go through every bad cliché in the book. While supposedly being experienced about wild animals, they still manage to piss off dinosaurs at every possible turn, which leads to the death of the only other sympathetic character in the film in Schiff's Eddie. JP3, on the other hand, had William H. Macy (with a ridiculous mustache) put in a solid turn as a dad looking for his kid. No awards deserved to be sure, but his character was at least on the level.
Adam: Ok, we come to our first point of disagreement. The supporting cast in JP2 stunk. Malcolm is admittedly fine, but Julianne Moore and Vince Vaughn's characters are moronic. They go through every bad cliché in the book. While supposedly being experienced about wild animals, they still manage to piss off dinosaurs at every possible turn, which leads to the death of the only other sympathetic character in the film in Schiff's Eddie. JP3, on the other hand, had William H. Macy (with a ridiculous mustache) put in a solid turn as a dad looking for his kid. No awards deserved to be sure, but his character was at least on the level.
Ben: You raise a good point about Julianne Moore. I agree that her character was stupid, that whole business with the baby T-Rex was absurd. However, I believe her general charisma as an actress overpowers the scenes where she comes off as moronic. As for Vince Vaughn, I remember him as a generally smart character, even if he wasn't played for anything more than some light comic relief. While I generally enjoyed William H. Macy, I just couldn't take him as the incompetent father searching for his son. Too many stupid moves between him and Tea lead me to hate their characters, along with dumbass Billy and the shaggy haired kid. Grant was the only likable one, and it made me wonder why he would hang out with a crowd of such nitwits.
Adam: I like Julianne Moore but I really feel like she fell flat. And Malcolm's daughter in JP2 is at least as annoying as the kid in JP3. But let’s move on here before we start repeating ourselves. JP3 is a more original film than JP2. Yup, you heard me. JP3 is not an original movie, but they came up with a new (albeit mediocre) story and added new characters and even some new dinosaurs to the mix. JP2 not only slaughtered the excellent Crichton book of the same name, it copied King Kong almost point for point. Adventurous crew heads to an exotic island, come across a mythical giant awe inspiring beasty (T-Rex), capture it and bring it back to civilization, it escapes and rampages all over a metropolitan area before being put down. I half expected him to climb up the tallest building in the area and start swatting planes.
Ben: I'll take entertainment over originality any day. Top of the list of things I wanted to see before I die? A T-Rex rampaging through San Diego , killing innocent people trying to rent a movie at Blockbuster. I can remember nearly every plot point in JP2, no matter how rehashed it all is, and I enjoyed almost all of it. The raptors in the high grass? Awesome and tense as all get-out. Two Rexes battering the trailers off a cliff? Yes please. I can barely even remember JP3, and I've seen it multiple times. Something about a Spinosaurus, a pterodactyl stealing poor ol' Billy, and an annoying ringing phone? Ugh. I'll watch the T-Rex bowling with 76 ball, thanks.
Adam: I will grant you two scenes. The high grass and T-Rexes vs. Trailers were really entertaining scenes. Two scenes does not a good movie make. The scene in San Diego is atrocious. It’s campy and feels completely out of place (besides making very little sense). And if you are looking for set pieces, JP3 has a couple of good ones featuring some brand new (and very impressive looking) dinosaurs. The Spinosaurus is much cooler looking than anything in JP2. The scene on the boat floating down the river during the Spinosaurus attack comes immediately to mind.
Ben: I think we have a fundamental difference here that will never be resolved. I find the whole San Diego sequence entertaining mostly BECAUSE of its camp. There are too many jokes in it for it to be taken seriously. While tonally it is a little out of sync with the rest of the film, I enjoyed the turn, and almost think of the beginning and end of JP2 as two separate movies (which I enjoy equally). JP3 is just one big crapfest.
Adam: OK, conclusion time. JP3 is one cohesive movie that knows exactly what it’s trying to do. It is trying to show off some darn cool dinos. It succeeds and provides just enough plot and character development to keep it interesting. It’s exciting, well paced and simple. JP2, on the other hand, cannot figure out what it wants to be. At times it tries to match the pathos of the original while staying true to the book, sometimes its simple action-adventure like the sequel, and at times is almost a comedy steeped in camp. I like all three options in three different movies. JP2 suffers from an acute case of identity crisis and along with its lack of originality it proves fatal. JP3 pounds JP2 almost as hard as I pounded Ben in this debate. Game, set, match.
Adam: OK, conclusion time. JP3 is one cohesive movie that knows exactly what it’s trying to do. It is trying to show off some darn cool dinos. It succeeds and provides just enough plot and character development to keep it interesting. It’s exciting, well paced and simple. JP2, on the other hand, cannot figure out what it wants to be. At times it tries to match the pathos of the original while staying true to the book, sometimes its simple action-adventure like the sequel, and at times is almost a comedy steeped in camp. I like all three options in three different movies. JP2 suffers from an acute case of identity crisis and along with its lack of originality it proves fatal. JP3 pounds JP2 almost as hard as I pounded Ben in this debate. Game, set, match.
Ben: I disagree with you so much. A movie doesn't need to "decide" what to be. As long as all the pieces work well together it can do whatever it damn well pleases. JP2 has two "parts" that both work equally well as popcorn entertainment. JP3 has a bunch of generic crap that doesn't work as anything. It is full of boring characters that are interchangeable and disposable, set pieces that aren't nearly iconic as those in JP2, and forgettable action. JP2 was fun the whole way through. Watching the two movies, it is obvious which is made by Steven Spielberg and which is made by Joe Johnston.
Adam’s Ratings: JP2: 15/30 JP3: 18/30
Ben’s Ratings: JP2: 19/30 JP3 12/30
I agree with Ben. JP 2 for the win.
ReplyDeleteThe part in the beginning where they are capturing all the dinosaurs is pretty sweet also.
you should add a gadget up top on the site and take a poll of everyone; whether they like JP2 or 3 better
ReplyDeleteI disagree throughly with Adam's statement of: "JP3 pounds JP2 almost as hard as I pounded Ben in this debate. Game, set, match."
ReplyDeleteThat's a good idea Dan. I'll try to set it up.
ReplyDeleteWell I thoroughly disagree with all three of you.
ReplyDeleteYour opinion is wrong!
ReplyDeleteThis was wonderfully entertaining, I was cracking up during your closing statements. I have a relevant story I would like to tell:
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the semester, I lent my Jurassic Park DVD three-pack to a friend. She proceeded to rewatch the films over and over and has yet to return them, though I could probably go over and get them any time I want to (sidenote: I am lazy). Anyway, not too long ago she came to me with bad news: her toddler brother had picked up one of the DVDs and, presumably imitating a velociraptor, the little tyke used it as a chew toy, leaving it scratched and maimed. I waited with bated breath, thinking to myself "I don't give a shit about Jurassic Park 2 or 3, but please, please let it not be Jurassic Park!" Turns out it was the third one, and I concluded that this was probably for the best.
Adam, I'm sorry to be the Cain to your Abel and betray my own brother, but I have to go with JP2 as the marginally less sucky of these two suckfests. These films are similar in a lot of ways: they both have a host of obnoxious, moronic characters, they both have a terrific lead who nevertheless feels a little lacking without the other iconic characters from the original film to play off of, and they both have exceptional special effects that are bogged down in a mire of either stale or no plot.
Yet for me, JP2 comes out on top with a few slight advantages. The first, as Ben has said, is that it is a lot more memorable, with several great scenes (in addition to the raptors in the field and the t-rex with the trailer, I would like to submit to your attention the poachers taking down the big head-butting dinosaur, as well as the recurring scenes with the little piranha-like horde of critters that manage to be terrifying despite their apparent harmlessness).
The second reason is one particular character who I was disappointed to see go without mention here: Pete Postlethwaite's mercenary big-game hunter, Roland Tembo. I see this character as a correction of an injustice done in the first film. For you see, Roland is really nothing more than another incarnation of Robert Muldoon, the hunter from Jurassic Park who fills the same role in both occupation and temperament. Both of these characters are level-headed, intelligent, and exude an air of badassery. But for all his implied badassery, Muldoon never actually gets to put it on display, dying with no more than the classic quip, "Clever girl" before he takes out a single dino. I never had a problem with Muldoon dying by being outsmarted by the raptors, but I always had some level of regret that I didn't get to see him do any damage beforehand. It could have made for some sweet action scenes - which is exactly what it does in the second film, where Roland takes up the mantle, with the terrific jeep-chase where he esnares the head-butting dinosaur, as well as his carefully planned yet unsuccessful trap for the T-Rex, and finally his face-off with and take-down of the King of the Lizards. With a name like Roland, he conjures up nothing less than a knight in shining armor, fighting for glory against the most terrible of dragons. And not only does he accomplish all this, he also doesn't die in the end: he merely walks off into the dark enigmatically, turning down a job with the corrupt villain of the movie with the utterance, "No thank you. I believe I've spent enough time in the company of death." One of the most underrated characters in movie history.
OK, yes Roland Tembo (and sidekick Ajay) are entertaining characters. Both are criminally underused however, further adding the frustration that JP2 delivers. His confrontation with the T-Rex is one of the least satisfying scenes in film history. Literally nothing happens and it is infuriating. JP2 is a film full of shoulda, coulda, woulda, didn't. JP3 at least delivers on its modest goals.
ReplyDeleteAnd thats a great story. I would have reacted in much the same way.
I just rewatched the first two over the last couple of days. Finished The Lost World a few minutes ago and I'd like to add another couple of highlights:
ReplyDelete1. The scene with Malcolm vs the raptor (outside the derelict station just before the scene with the stupid gymnastic nonsense) is really quite brilliantly choreographed, and made me laugh out loud.
2. The score to this movie is fantastic: while it reuses the beautiful themes from the original, John Williams added a Lost World theme that is quite wonderful in its own right, and should be more well known among his work.
Okay, I promise I'll stop posting comments on the JP reviews now.
"Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running, and screaming. "
Side comment to Michael - anything borrowed that comes back damaged = you buy me a new one. She did replace it, right?
ReplyDeleteMichael, both films just rip off the score from the first one. And, I just watched JP3 today for the first time in a while, just to make sure I what I remembered was correct. It is an exciting fun piece of fluff. Exactly what I claimed. One other scene to add for JP3: Spinosaurus vs T-Rex. Super awesome. Now I have to rewatch JP2, to make sure it is as bad as I remember.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I'm going to have to return to settle the score on the score issue (terrible pun intended). Yes, as I recall, JP3 does just rip off the score of Jurassic Park, not adding any interesting new themes.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when you watch The Lost World again, pay careful attention to the score: it's actually very different from the first one. While of course at a few key moments John Williams brings back the familiar main couple of themes from the original (as audiences would expect and want) the majority of it has a completely different style. The main recurring theme from The Lost World is dark and formidable, as opposed to the alternately sweetly wonderous and brightly triumphant theme of Jurassic Park. And as far as The Lost World's score in general goes, it is filled with dense, edgy drum beats that evoke a dangerous tropical jungle setting and add to the overall tension: nothing like what you hear in JP. Don't get me wrong, JP has one of my favorite movie scores of all time, and I don't hesitate to say it's better. I was just pointing out my revelation upon rewatching the film that The Lost World's is quite good too, and certainly original.
But don't take my word for it, listen and compare for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8zlUUrFK-M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb6Xk5p9MpQ&feature=related
P.S. I am in total agreement with you on the Spino vs Rex fight in JP3, that scene blew me away when I was a kid in the theater seeing a Jurassic Park film on the big screen for the first time.